G'day, or evening (depending on the time zone you're in), PaganChild. You'll be meeting a lot of people here that may believe the same thing as you do, but I haven't seen any so far. There are others that will just tell you "wow, you nailed that one on the head" repeatedly, and all they're doing is agreeing with you - I just ignore them really, because they end up saying the same thing the other person says but just use different words. Where two people agree, one is redundant as they say. Then there are those people who have a lot to say, but don't really say anything at all (Metallica says "The empty can rattles the most"). The reason why the don't say anything though, is because they don't have facts to back up their opinions or they rely too much on their emotions.

So there's no mistake in what I believe: I am a Christian, though I wasn't always one.

Questions: Where in the Bible does it say that witches are the devil's creations? I've never come across that verse before that uses those words.

How is giving something a name giving it power?

What I think when I hear someone say that they are a witch is... well, I just roll my eyes. Seriously. I don't think you're evil either.

The church never tells the state that they can't marry. However, people can vote on the representatives that they put in power, and people tend to vote for the people that share the same values as they do.

When I said that I was referring to the part in the Bible where it say thou shall not persecute a witch until death. I don't recall where but I know I cam across it when I was attempting to be Catholic.
Mach10 why do you roll your eyes when you hear that someone is a Witch?

Well, PaganChild, where in the Bible did you come across it? I already know if it is or isn't in the Bible, but I'm doing this so you can see for yourself. There are other reasons too, because if it's not in there, it lowers your credibility and makes you more defensive.

Why I roll my eyes when I hear someone is a witch is because I know how dumb it can be. I used to have a bunch of wiccan friends in high school and they would talk about nature, spells, and their godesses and crap like that. I never took it or them seriously - they claimed to be searching for "knowledge" and meanwhile they lacked common sense and were failing their classes. I would meet their so-called friends, and I noticed some patterns. Now I suspect that these friends probably held some form of leadership in their little groups.

One of their friends would say something to you like "Wow, you're powerful" or "You have potential" or "You have so much energy." I noticed that's been said to a lot of people, and it's just something to say that's a good advertisement. It's a compliment to get people to subscribe to their BS. Pretty soon you have new teenyboppers collecting the books, symbols, knick-knacks all over their rooms, and trying to learn about paganism back in the day. They even try to educate me about Stonehenge using their worldview slant - but scholars still debate what Stonehenge was used for (no one knows).

I don't remember where but I did come across it and I don't feel like trying to find my Bible and reading it. I just can't read it, it bores me. Personally those who advertise aren't really wiccans but people who would like to. Thats disgraceful and I feel abashed at how they acted.

Well, if it bores you, then when you read it (if you read it) you probably were half asleep anyways, and therefore it doesn't say what you claim it to say anyways.

Nah, these bigwigs weren't advertising anything. I happened to be around my friends at the time they got together. I'm always in the right place at the right times it seems. As for my friends knick-knacks, they were in the rooms of some of my friends. Most of them had little boxes or places in their room where they kept their private stuff though. I didn't ask, and they didn't tell - and I wasn't interested because it truely did bore me.

The thread with the title ''god mankind's invention'' , I wrote it, hmmm...I am an atheist and, Pagan Child , I think that it is your choice just as it is the choice of others to be christians, atheists, nihilists, or buddhists and so on!Each one makes his or her choices in life and we must admit that the religious beliefs are a very important part in people's lives(I do not believe in god however I do believe that there is some higher power,before I didn't understand the power of religion and what it truly represents to its believers, or followers but I MUST admit that , travelling with many groups to some amazing countries, hit by sever social cisis , injustice and total madnesss of its rulers, I saw how all that almost brings its people to their kneees..almost!because I saw how faith uplifts them and help them keep their heads above water in a world in which for them, it is hell on earth everyday, they find strenght in religion..SO ,again, I must admit that religion has its good parts as it helps many people in general not to mention the ones I mentioned earlier Pagan Child..

Hi there! Well first of all I have no idea what a Pegan is or a Wiccan for that matter , please explain! Whenever I hear someone beeing a witch hey, go right ahead! I think it's pretty cool and serously has nothing to do with a black cat and a broom stick. Anyways, im not going to judge you for what you belive in becuase first of all I have no idea what it is all about. Yeah I have no idea either of why people judge gays, I love them their so cute!

well its hard to explain with out going so much into detail. pagan is an ancient religion based on honoring the earth and all its creature. wicca is the modern day version of the old witchcraft. witchcraft isn't around anymore because all the documents that have been written were forced to be burned by the roman catholic crusaders. but wicca is honoring the earth mind soul and body as one. with a god and goddess looking out for and guiding but not controlling or telling that you can't be anything that you aren't. its really hard to explain. and witch don't just use cats as their familiars, a familiar is an animal that helps you with your magick, and brooms are for cleansing an area of all the bad chakra, inside and out. not for riding on... lol... thats the best i can describe it with out overloading you with information, but if you want to know more i'll find some good websites for you.

Wow that really is cool! I knew that modern day witch craft wasn't freaky stuff it's actualy relevent to life. Well i'm glad that your choosing your own path and aren't beliveing in something everyone else does. Good for you! :)

AHH! PLEASE DON'T CURSE US!

that's mean. i take that offensively and i don't not appreciate you saying that. its cruel and mean. i don't curse anyone and its against the main rules we are asked to follow.

But you could if you wanted to?

Yes, but why would I? I really don't want to do anything like that. Its wrong.

I'm already wary when people tell me how other people are going to respond to their thread, but I'll respond anyway.

1) What do I think of when I think of witch? When I think of a witch, various images comes to mind. Biblically, witchcraft is anything that sets itself against the ways of God. For instance, disobedience to one's parents is a form of witchcraft (not referring to children who disobey parents who are trying to harm them). Another image are those who believe in dual divinity between a male and female god. Witches practice magic spells, incantations, cannot use their magic for evil, divine times, speak to the dead, tries to raise spirits, etc. I used to do Wicca, so I know a little about it. Basically, witches do everything as a work of the flesh. Meaning they try to divine things of their own power. Please give me a Scriptural reference which says what you said the Bible says about witches. Mine are from Deuteronomy 18:10-11 (which I think is where you may be coming from) and Galatians 5:19-20.

2) Gay marriage is something that God abhors. God is love and is the true definition of love. Humans are not the authors of what love constitutes. Under Christian belief, marriage exists solely between a man and a woman. Should gays choose to be married, that's on them. The Church can't stop them, except in individual locations which do not marry gays. All decisions of all persons are between them and God come judgment day. And also, not all children of this world/the future believes as you do.

I think basically what's hard for non-Christians to understand is that God is about absolutes. Black and white. No moral relativity. Wicca is a work of flesh because a person is trying to divine and control things through their own power. It evidences lack of trust and faith in God. YOU are not evil, but the works of your hands are (the practice of Wicca). And besides, you don't have to be an active, conscious Satan worshiper to be doing his works. God makes it clear, if you ain't doing it for Him, you're with the other dude. I understand this appears too black and white, but it's the reality. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it because it might upset people or it's not PC enough.

Ultimately, we are all going to bear the consequences of our belief or lack thereof. I as a Christian will reap the wages of my belief. An atheist will reap their belief's wages (they will literally not have God in the after life). As a Wiccan, you will reap the wages of your Wiccan lifestyle. If you feel confident that when you die, your soul will be chillax, then there's nothing more to say. That's your assumption of risk. If you're not so sure your soul is gonna be moseying on to a happening place, then you should get to know Jesus. Hope I've helped some what on your topic. Stay blessed and love and support is on here for you.

I see what you are saying, but I seriously lost my Bible, or it got thrown away when we moved either way whatever. How is Wicca evil? And I how can I work for someone I don't even believe in? "God makes it clear, if you ain't doing it for Him, you're with the other dude." What I do I always ask the GODS and GODDESSES to watch over me and guide me. How am I working for "the other dude" as you put it? But the thing is I don't believe in a Heaven, I do a Hell but that's a different story. So if my soul is going to be lost, its better then being on a world where war wages and hate rules. Oh, and what if God is not about absolutes but more about mysteries? And Wicca isn't about flesh work its about working in harmony with the Earth and the Gods conjoined. And I'm very aware that not everyone is like me, most people aren't. But I do want to meet people who aren't so closed minded and open. Can I ask you what book on Wicca did you read or did you get it from the internet? Cause there is no set belief on the basics of Wicca. And the Bible wasn't written by a holy person, but by a regular person. Just out of curiosity what do you think Jesus looks like?

PaganChild, you don't need to find your physical Bible right away. You can just go on to Bible Gateway's site. It's an e-Bible and is very handy.

It was a long time ago, and I honestly cannot recall the book my friends and I worked from. Why I say that when you're working for the other dude, meaning the devil, it's a bright line rule of Christianity. Obviously, you can take it or leave it. You choose to leave it, but it doesn't make it any less God's Word on the matter.

I think Jesus looks like His Father in Heaven. I don't have a physical picture of Him, because it isn't important. Revelation described Him with hair as white as wool, bright in appearance, and looks like various jewels and metals in their intensity. No human can really explain what he looks like. We can only compare Him to things we know, but it doesn't compare.

What I means by Wicca being a work of the flesh, is that the Bible describes it as such. Works of the flesh (anything aside from God's plan for salvation) means nothing to God and will be burned because they are empty. Again, that's the Word, so I understand you don't believe that because Wicca tells you that you're working in "harmony" with nature. Well, nature is God's creation, so its working in "harmony" with His Word. He spoke all this into being, so it responds to His commands. Humanity has dominion over the earth, but we can't make the world/nature do things either.

Lastly, God is not a mystery. He has revealed Himself thru Jesus His Son and His Word. It's we as humans who seek to complicate Him and life because we wanna have life both ways. For example, "X likes the idea of Heaven, but doesn't like that there's only ONE way to Heaven, thru Jesus Christ. X knows the God has said thru His Word that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. X decides to believe that there's more than one way to Heaven." What God has simplified, humans have complicated because it doesn't sit well with OUR idea of fairness.

Now, a question for you: How do you know who the Bible was written by if you aren't reading it or studying it? You can't talk definitively about something you don't know. Now, as MissCherie suggested, you should head over to BibleGateway.com. As I said, if you feel like your soul is good with this Wicca thing, so be it. If you're wondering if there's a possibility your soul is not on the right track, start praying to God and reading His Word. Take care and God bless. AV, over and out!

(lets re-write what i backspaced to another page on. ugh)
I know that the Bible was written by a man, a white man(i say this because Jesus is described so many different ways, mainly as one having fair skin. but his background would show that he would have darker skin like his Hebrew ancestors), mainly because of how God is stated to be the only one who can rule and make judgment. I personally think that its not possible for a man of any stature to be able to rule successfully without a women by his side. But I do give credit to those who have made better of this world with help of the Bible, but I can't forget the thousands that where murdered in the name of the Bible either. And according to the Bible, I don't know what part it is but its to do with Adam and Eve, God banished them from the Garden of Eden for taking the Devils fruit. Then yes they say that Jesus was sent to us to die for our sins, after we "crucified" him. I say we because if you go back far enough we all have blood stained hands from our ancestors past. I'll check out the website but man does change the Bible and some words, phrases, whatever you would like to call it, has been lost in the translation. I would seriously love to read the original, the first, Bible ever written. But I still need to learn whatever language that it would have been written in. Maybe Hebrew. Anyway if God wants us to hear him, He'll make damn sure that we hear him. And Wicca doesn't dictate the way you think or live, but guide just like the I've been told the Bible claims, I've also been told that you can only believe in Him and no other God. I find that to be a bit dictating. And I do agree that we humans have complicated things but I don't think that God has laid out a set plan for anyone. If he made us in His image but gave us free will, then what is His? I'm off topic again aren't I? http://teenwitch.com/ this is a great website if you have any questions on Wicca. I don't preach my belief upon you so please return the respect. I've finally found the path that makes me feel more free, and f.y.i. I never even knew a God existed until I stared school. I grew up never knowing and know I finally now, I can finally see that light I never saw when I first saw death. I promise I'll check out the website tomorrow after my homework. Blessed Be.

Hi, PaganChild!

Are you sure you've heard that Jesus was described as having fair skin, or did you see artists' renditions of Him in paintings or pictures? If the latter is so, then why totally go by that if none of the artists had ever physically seen Jesus? I've personally seen pictures of Jesus that run the entire spectrum, from a blonde haired, blue-eyed guy to a dark skinned African man. But my favorite description of Jesus is that He is the color of water. Judging. In John 7:24, Jesus said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." The reason for this statement was at the time, the pharisees had a tendancy to not only judge the behavior, but speculate as to the individual's motive for doing it. And we know that only God can see into a person's heart. But this verse also allows for parents, police officers and judges on the bench to discern right and wrong behaviors. Also note that it gives us the ability to assess different situations and their impact. For instance, when we see poverty, we immediately make a judgment about that: "This is wrong. People should not live this way." Adam and Eve. God banished them from the garden because they disobeyed Him. The fruit was just a fruit. God could have told them not to climb the tree -- they could have had free reign to climb any other tree, but not that one. But God just chose to tell them not to eat the fruit from that specific tree. He was basically just setting up a boundary line. It could have been about anything. Crucifying Jesus. Jesus could have called legions of angels to come help Him out. He laid down His life for us. This angle is discussed in Jesus' conversation with Pontius Pilate just before the crucifixion. Corruption of the Bible translation. Go check out the Dead Sea Scrolls website on the net. They're the earliest transcription of the Torah to date. And it's completely accurate and matches up with the Bibles of today. Hearing God. The Bible is God's holy Word written down for us. We see in the story of Lazarus, the rich man and Abraham, if you do not believe what is written in the Bible, then even if people come back from the dead to try and convince you of its truth, then you would not believe it. Basically, even if those who don't love Him heard God's angel messenger come to talk to you, you would dismiss it as a bad dream or too much cough syrup the night before. Also, it's too intense and too scarey for those who have no relationship with God to wrap their minds around. (And that's just when you get the messenger; I'm not talking about when you're actually drawn into God's presence.) Free will. This is the old, "Can God make a rock too big for Him to lift?" question. What you're asking here is for God to do something that would render Himself null and void or to contradict Himself. Not going to happen. Does He have the power to make us into robots? Yes. But that's not what He wanted. He wants us to love Him on our own. "Love compelled is a precursor to loneliness." If you had the power to make a boy love you, would you? Certainly not. Then how would you know he really loved you?

you never really know what love is until you die. haha and i was thinking about the adam and eve taking the forbidden fruit of the tree of... what was the tree called? anyway, it just proved my point i tell my friends and all the people who ask me "why do people do stuff when they are told not to?" haha i always answer because you feel compelled to do what your told that you can't. you want to prove them wrong. haha well thats off topic.
anywho, on the Jesus color thing. both i've seen the paintings and i even heard he was Mexican. and i would not pass off it off as a dream if an angel came and told me something about God. i've seen angels faeries demons and even zues and bastet. and i don't like to take too much medicine.
i'm liking this debate. it's kinda fun.
okay this is going to be off topic but i'm curious to know.
if you met me in the real world as i am now with my nine piercings thick black eyeliner black tang top tight blue jeans two collars a celtic knot necklace a gem stone necklace an isis necklace and a whole bunch of bracelets would you think of me as a trouble maker child or something else?
the reason i'm asking is cause of my family.
sorry for it being off topic but i really need some help with this situation its been bothering me since summer. and there is no way anyone is changing their minds because of someone else stated. i'm as stubborn as an ox... lol... it was an enjoyable debate and i hope we can be friends. religion is just what you want it to be and it should matter who you are and what your beliefs are, as long as you are a genuine person and you have some common interests.