Funny how things come full circle, isn't it? It's a system of checks and balances. We just have to keep this kind of thing in check. Learn how to debate effectively, then you can be sure to expose double standards at every turn. The key is to really study up on the hot button issues of the day, and be cool, calm and collected during your debates. Turn your frustration into something positive. Our nation is starting to seriously wake up to the reality of how discrimination can work in many different directions. How do we know? It's getting active air time on news shows, and is popping up more and more in conversations between the average Joes.

"Opinions are preferences amid options."

Now, I will muddy the water some. If every human being is equal in their humanity, does that automatically mean their views are equal?

I guess what i meant by equal was in our opportunities to excel in this country. Yes some do have handicaps when they enter our country, but with the right attitude and determination they can accomplish more than anyone.

Our voices are just as powerful and meaningful as anyone else's no matter if they are of different view points, race, religion, or economic status. Many people will try to find the one potent difference between eachother and they will use that as their way to say things are not equal. And obviously the biggest trait they find is the difference in skin color. And that's when i say this needs to stop. Skin color is just another part of who we are. It doesn't make anyone any lesser of a person. If people could just see that then maybe we could finally put rascism and discrimination to rest.

But why should everybody be equal in their opportunities? In the book, "The Death of the Grown-up", author Dianne West suggests our culture doesn't really want equal opportunities, but equal end results.

Why should our views be powerful or meaningful? In a world where nihilism reigns and there are no solid boundaries b/c everyone has different view points, why should all of this matter? Why should differences really matter when we discuss equality? Why should anything be obvious regarding the importance of skin pigmentation? Your view may be different than another's. So why should something you value be of the same importance to another? Why should your values be applied to those that offended you enough to start this thread? If morality is what each individual makes of it, then our own morality applies to no one else but ourselves. Again, this all applies only if relativism has its day...

I can see what you're saying. But it's like in a classroom. If you are working on a group project everyone's voice must be heard, everyone's ideas must be thrown into the mix. They must work together so that everyone has an equal say in how the project is finished. But even though they are equal every single one of them will have different views on the project. So this makes them equal but different. But i ran a forum discussing illegal immigration and the only reason people had to defend themselves on was that i was a rascist. Though i never attacked a single race. So just because i attacked immigration people automatically thought i was a rascist, which is totally false.

Everyone's views must be heard. But then we must narrow it down to who is right. In this scenario, the objective is: Are your views racist? You say they are not, but another says they are. So can two opposite opinions (or things in general) both be true at the same time? At this juncture, we can A: say, it's all so crazy, walk away and never get any resolution. This means that you will continually be left with frustration every time this issue comes up in the future Or B: We can weigh each view and find out who is correct. But that will require stepping on somebody's toes, and in our society today, it's become taboo to claim popular mantras are wrong. So then we come to this: How do we know which view is correct? Is there definite lines on right and wrong, or are the boundaries fluid? If the boundaries are fluid, then everyone is permitted to have their own definition of morality and no moral principle can be universal. Option 2 is that there are absolutes. But that means that there is one set of rules for everyone, and merely disagreeing w/them doesn't absolve an individual of the duty to abide by those rules.

P.S. I just found this: "Margot Wallstrom, a senior official of the European Union (EU) took the occasion of VE-Day 2005 to condemn the concept of nationalism itself -- not Hitler, not the democracies' appeasement of Hitler -- for causing the outbreak of World War II. She accused Europeans reluctant to cede their sovereignty -- or, as she put it, their 'nationalistic pride' -- to the supranational and anti-democratic EU bureacracy as risking a retrun to Nazism and the Holocaust." So what is to become of individualism if the "leaders" in our world advocate that anything that is remotely divisive is not diverse and, thus, should be shunned? Because in order for something to be an individual, it must be distinctive; and that de facto means discrimination on some level.

welll.. really i think it depends on weather your point of views are considered rasist. for you to be called rasist.

My views are not rascist in the least bit. I never attack a single race, and i've never made stereotypes. Its people's interpretations of what i say that makes my views seem rascist.

And therein lies the crux of the argument, monkey. Whose interpretation is correct? Remember, can two completely opposite things both be true at the same time?

No. Two opposite things can't always be true, not at the same time. See there really is no true way to fight rascism though. Not when you are white. That is the handicap that white people are given. Because of the white man's history, most white people are dubbed as being rascist. So those of different races can easily call me a rascist, but i can't say it back to them because they are the "minority", and for some reason they can be rascist and not get accused as being so. And so many people are so frieghtened by being called a rascist that they just go curl up in a corner. That's why i want to put an end to it. I'm tired of people losing their will to fight as soon as the rascist card gets used on them. It's time for people to take a stand and say that they won't tolerate it anymore. People must learn to fight through the rascism that they are so wrongfully accused of. That's what i'm aiming for. To show people that there is a way to fight through and make your voice be heard even after you have been dubbed a rascist.

Okay. Name an instance when two things completely opposite can both be true at the same time. Can you be a racist and not at the same time? If there is no true way to fight racism, then why bother posting -- why bother getting upset at all? Because you know, deep within you, that a line has been crossed. Something has happened that should not have happened. Don't cave now. We're on to something here. But for you to recognize that, it means you'll have to admit there are absolutes. But you are skirting around calling this spade a spade because there's an area of your life that you are not willing to declare morally wrong. If you fully cry foul in this issue, then that opens the door for somebody to essentially point the morality finger at you in another area. The only way you can be vindicated in the race arena is if you allow for justice in other arenas. That can only happen if relativism is incorrect. You couch your act of heroism in the form of freeing the frightened. By why would anyone have to be frightened? What if, gasp, they believed there was no such thing as reverse racism; and that was the reason for their apathy? Taking a stand. You just advocated for intollerance. Did you know that? Isn't it very un-PC to do that in this day and age?

alright well my question to you pmbmonkey1, is why are you getting so upset about this if you know your not rasist?

there is a lesson to be learned from this, and your the one who needs to figure out what that lesson is.

I think i'm more frustrated than upset. Cause it's not only me who has this happen to them. You see thousands of people everyday make a point about something or say something that if misinterpreted could be made out to make them seem rascist. And when this is brought up, most people who have these false accusations of them being rascist, will normally stop making that point, even if that point was something important.

And as for misscherie, it's all about what your beliefs are. If i say something that i think is legitament and is not rascist then i know i'm not rascist and i hold that to be true. But if someone was listening to what i was saying and they have a different mind set and they hear my comment, they may very well believe that i'm being rascist. And they will hold that to be true. So both sides say that they are right, but they will never admit to being wrong. It's just like if a woman says the building is yellow but a man says this building is white. Well the man is color-blind so white truly is the color of that building to him. Even though to our eyes it would be yellow. So on rare occasions, yes two opposites can be true, it just depends on how you look at it. That's why you must play on both sides of the ball. When trying to understand why you are being called a rascist you must understand the other side of the argument. That is something people do not like to do. They don't like to admit that their beliefs might be wrong. I think that might be the lesson to be learned from all of this. There is a right, and there is a wrong. There is true and there is false. Those are absolutes. But you can't just say that i'm right and you're wrong. In order to decipher what true and what's false you must look at it from all sides. Not just your own.