So if everybody is equal and if somebody comes up to you and says that everyone is not equal, then you would say his opinion carries just as much weight as yours does and both statements would effectively cancel each other out.

So why should anyone make the best of anything? What if their worldview is in direct opposition to yours? Maybe they believe there was no connection to be lost in the first place.

More to life. Because of the views you adhere to Saroin420, you won't find lasting purpose. So why do you still ask these questions at all? Why do you still have this persistent need in you that screams for meaning in life? Could it be that the system you developed for yourself isn't working?

misscherie, why do you say that ? do you think that your better than everyone else and that you have more say then everyone else??
were all connected here, its been scientifically proven many times, and if you cant grasp that then i feel sorry for you. there is no reason for any of us to be mean to eachother and to release negative emotions upon one another, becuase ultimatly we will be hurting outselves.

yes we are all equal and if somebody said that to me then they would be very ignorant and obvously spoiled for saying such things.

and no the statements wouldnt cancel eachohter out, its not math .

why wouldnt we make the best of everything ? better than killing ourselves.
if i didnt make the best out of things in my life id be 6 feet under right now.

if people actualy belive there is no connectoin i feel bad for them. beccuase they have lost that and they dont deserve that.

a lasting purpose ? oh i know my purpose. my purpose here is so i can help others, so the universe can use me to make others aware of global events to happen in the future. and quite honestly if the universe needed me to die for everyone to be happy and there to be world peace by all means id do it.

i ask these questoins becuause it makes me sad that other people cannnot realize that we are all one, we are all equal and we are all connected to everything. weather you like it or not. i dont care what you belive in , the connnection to the world applys to you to as long as you live here and have energy you will be effected by it. also scientifically proven.

no i know the meaning of life, i ask why we do these things here in our soceity. if we were bush people we would be helping out eachother as a whole, as a community and nobody would be commiting suicide or any of the negative side effects to our soceity in the concert jungle.

Why did you jump to the conclusion that I feel I'm better than everyone else?

Don't feel sad for people who don't agree with you. If there's an individual who doesn't believe the universe is actually a conscious entity, then why would they be affected by it? I mean, if all we need for something to be real is just our personal belief in it, then your concept would be negated by the next person who disregards your opinion. It thereby makes your ideas and grief unnecessary.

Scientific proof. What scientific proof? You cited the book, "The Secret", previously. That's all that author's opinion. You've cited other pantheistic viewpoints. Again, all opinions.

Truth is you're grasping at straws. It's illustrated by the fact that you aimlessly throw around things like, you think you're better than everyone else; and, if you can't grasp these concepts then I feel sorry for you. You've got nothing else to back up your "opinions", so you attempt at hitting below the belt. Remember our conversations about how you handicap yourself when the only argument you leave yourself is just your opinion versus others'. I easily blow your arguments out of the water by saying your opinion is equal to others', and it de facto gets canceled out whenever opposing opinions are used. Remember, by your own relativistic principles, the individual does whatever works for the individual and that de facto means no judgment on others. Also by saying you feel sorry that I can't grasp your concepts, you're passing judgment on me. Why feel grief for someone if there is no ultimate purpose and we're all floating in the wind?

So why do you feel that the only arena in which opposing viewpoints can cancel each other out is math? If you say something is black, and Joe Schmoe says something is green, and all we have to go on are these two human opinions, wouldn't those equal opinions cancel each other out? Mind you, all we have to go on are these two opinions. Nothing else tips the scales. Can two opposing views both be correct at the same time?

Bush people. Why do you assume they always help each other out? Doesn't that theory fly in the face of Darwins' survival of the fittest? Why do you assume bush people don't commit suicide? What of the Aztecs who sacrificed themselves and their children to their gods? Didn't they commit suicide? Oh, but I guess it's different if you do it for some higher purpose other than just killing yourself b/c you're depressed, right?

i didnt i was asking if you felt that way. becasue if you dont think everyone is equal then what do you think ??

i do feel sad becuase those people dont realize thier full potential of people. we are not here to work and to have money and live this patehtic life, we are here, and we all have a lot of power to do many things and a lot of people dont ralize.

religon is biased becuase it is sombodys point of view. so how is it that you are allowed to tell people that their belifs/religon is biasesd but when it comes down to yours and if somebody challaneges you , automatically you say no i have this and this proof from the bible and some sites from the internet. those are biased oppinions .

i know your going to ask this so ill just answer it myself. so what about my oppinion shouldnt it be biased? well, my belifs come from a varied source of scientific evidence and information, as well as spiritual feelings. these scientific sources and evidence are not biased but based on information taken from molecules in real life. that is not biased it is fact.

oh i have nothing to back up my "oppions" now eh ??
well my belifs come from science. heres a reference:
my grade 10 science class; we all have energy.
varoius books by many experienced and highly trained authors, which all got their facts from scientific sources and profesionals (i really forget all the books if i could list them all i would) ; the connectiveness we have with one another and with the universe, how molecules change from different positive and negative energy as well as emotions, how planets do have energy
david suzuki ; how we are all one, how we effect the planet, how we need love.
the first nations/aboriginal belilfs; how we are connected to the planet, and also how we are made of all the earths elements. (david suzuki also talks about these things), also how we are able to heal, and how precious the earth is.

if that isnt enough references to what my belifs are then idk what is.


misscherie, ive tried to understand where your comming from with your set of belifs and i do, i can see youve made a small effort to understand where im comming from.

again, this isnt math your oppinons dont cancel out mine. they may in your mind my they certainly dont in mine.

... there is no ultimate purpose ?? idk if your playing devils advocate here but honeslty. there is a purpose and we are all here for a reason. everything happeneds for a reason. alright lemmie put this in words youll probly understand more.
if god puts us here he would most defiantly put us here for a reason correct? he put jesus here for a reason, to sacrifice himself for our sins. if we are here for no reason what so ever then wouldnt god be waising his time ? wouldnt god be wanting us to learn from life rahter than take advantage of it? he puts us in good/bad situations in life so we can learn from them. if we do not learn from different lessons hes trying to get at in life then we will not grow mentally.
so that beeing said, we all have a porpose here and we are all here for a reason.


no you have to take both oppinions into consideration, and you have to try and understand where they are bouth comming from. they do not just automattically cancel eachother out. how do we know which answer is right ? how do we know whats truly the right answer and what were really here for in life?? ahh nobody really knows, all we can do is sit here and do our best no matter what.
but its true though how do we actualy know what is right in life? its what we feel that makes us belive what were doing is right. for example someone who is unable to feel their beeing burned against someone who can feel themselves beeing burnt. its how we feel with our emotions and in our minds that guides us through life and makes us feel what were doing is right. well just answered my own question there.


there are various different bush tribes out there, many do help eachother out, others fend for themselves. really it all depends. also their belifs are different.

whoa sorry that was realy longg.. :|

I understand. Just wait, mine will be longer -- but a good read!

The way you worded the initial question implies that's how you felt. People usually respond in that manner when they feel overwhelmed by an issue. I do agree w/the idea that every person's worth is equal. As far as morality goes, that's not measured the same. That must be transcendant over mere fickle humans.
But in your relativistic perspective, why should anything ultimately matter or have potential? Again, if we are part of a valueless process, then why should there be purpose? Merely stating something doesn't make it so. Basically coherence on any level flies in the face of the fundamentals of your worldview. So why should we have power or the ability to realize at all? Sure, you could say humanity should work towards the greater good or to the point where we all love and respect one another. To that I'll answer, why should anything be working towards any goal if we are all part of a meaningless process?
Religion is meaningless b/c it's somebody's point of view. So then I could flip that around and say your p.o.v. is meaningless b/c it is your p.o.v., thereby defeating you with your own argument. You just proved my point about relativism. On the one hand you say, everybody's perspective is equal; but you won't extend that to religious perspectives.
Differences in the Bible vs. human opinion is that the Bible isn't human opinion. It espouses absolute truth, not relying on fickle humans for validation. Every other view relies on people for verification. Your beliefs come from varied sources? Doesn't matter; those varied sources are all human opinions. Recall our discussions about science vs. the personal philosophy called scientism. Look, this just boils down to do you believe God when He says His Bible is true and He has the ability to protect it from humans messing it up? Who do you believe is more powerful: God or humans?
10th grade science class. Yes, we all have energy; but you take it a step further by saying unthinking processes and matter possess self-awareness and the ability to cause effects by their own volition.
David Suzuki. He was talking about how pouring toxins into the earth eventually means they'll end up in the food supply. When he was talking about our interconnectedness, he meant when you go buy a bag of coffee, you are affecting the store owner, cashier, stock person, coffee maker, the person who made the packaging, etc.
Why wouldn't my opinions cancel out yours if all human opinions were equal and all we have to go on is human accounts and opinions? Now, whose implying superiority amid the species?
Your devil's advocate scenario. Right you are. But that scenario only exists if God is real. And purpose and meaning only exist if God exists. Relativism leaves no room for any of those three.

Continuing on. I can consider both sides, but again, two completely opposite things cannot both be true at the same time. The Gospel flies directly in the face of relativism, so it must be one or the other. The dialectical system makes no sense here. When you step out into the street in front of an oncoming bus, it's either you or the bus, not both. How do we know which answer is right? What we should be asking is are we willing to step on toes and actually tell somebody that they are wrong?
Nobody really knows? So the only thing we can know for sure is that nobody really knows, right? Wait a minute. That sounds like another contradiction! So how do you know nobody knows, Saroin420? How can you do your best in a social climate where nobody knows which way to go? Is this an example of the blind leading the blind?
What we feel makes us believe what we're doing is right. So that's the test, if an action makes us feel good? My kid feels vindicated if he hits his friend for taking his toy. Are you excusing that behavior? Whether or not we can process the messages sent from our nerves to our brain that tells us if something is hot or cold is an issue that's separate and apart. So emotions guide you? But don't you possess the ability to override your emotions? Eating Big Macs at every meal would make me feel good in the short-term, but what does that do to me in the long-term? So should we really let emotions be our guide? Or perhaps we should be the boss of our feelings. Have you ever heard of the saying, "feelings make a better servant than they do a master"?
Bush tribes. It depends, huh? You mean, it's all relative. So are you saying now that morality is culturally relative? What if it was their custom to allow adults to brutalize infants? Still relative?

Misscherie, if we are actualy in a valueless process ,i really doubt that, but if we are i dont care what anybody says i have more potential than i could imagine and i will and do anything to reach my goals. i will always belive in myself and if somebodys tells me that what im doing is valueless and has no meaning well to hell with them. they can think that way but theres no way im going to let anybody rain on my parade . and i dont care who they are.
im here for a reason idk if youve figured out your purpose yet but i know mine and im going to stay here until its my time to go. i can do anything, anything! and i dont care if you think otherwise becuase i know better for myself.


misscheire, how is somthing meaningless when you have learned something along the way? you could even lean one thing and it will still have meaning and it will still be worth it in the end. when we die misscheire then we will know what the world is all about and then we will know if our life had meaning or not.


stop beeing so nieve, humans wrote the bible. how do you think those words got on those pages ? god didnt come down here takeing on a human form and wrote those words, we did. HUMANS did. not some big man called god.
also, i thought you said god was love? how come you keep calling it a man ?

who do i belive is more powerful? well with what i have gathered, we are apart of god meaning we are each a peice of god and when we come together we are god. humans are powerful more powerful than you might think. we only use a small percentage of our minds, imagine if we were taught how to use all of it, what then ? there is a power in each of us that isnt suppose to be here for makeing money, makeing buildings and starting wars. we are here for an intirely different reason and though the technologies and our seperation with nature its going to be a very long and difficult process to get that back.


i belive that back way back in the day places like atlantis and probly other places to, knew how to tap into that power and now we have lost it. i belive where that power comes from is our connection with everything around us. its very powerful once we get to that point.


are you sure thats what david suzuki ment? or are you interperiting it the wrong way?

our energy with everything around us is capable of more things than you can imagine.


so missccheire, what if bouth our view points of the world/belifs were completely wrong? then what? was it just a waist of time then?

we will know the truth when we die, im sure of it. well know what life was realy about and what the world was actualy about. afterall, the worlds in our head. what were in right now is just a mindset, each and everryone of us is in a certain mindset. when we get out of that mindset and look beyond all our matieral objects and past this typical life then what will we see? what do you think youd see ?

emotions do guide me, but also the logical part of my brain guides me too. its like collecting information from various different people and then executing what you think sounds best.

eating bigmacs eh ? thats just comfort food, and what if somebody were to eat something at each meal to feel good what are you trying to surpress ? what would they be trying to feel good about? would they not be loving themselves?

alot of people dont love themselves which is really sad becuase everyone should love themselves and accept themselves no matter what.

So you don't care that you are continually contradicting yourself? Don't you know that is one of the tests for a worldview's reliability: consistency?
You can do anything? But we've already established that isn't true -- or have you turned your bottled water into wine yet?
Meaning. This is exactly what I've been trying to tell you. There's no room for ultimate meaning in the relativistic/secluar worldview. But you and others who adhere to it are trying to have it both ways, trying to say 2 opposites can both be true at the same time. The only way for there to be meaning in life is if the relativism theory is a dud.
Why should you have to wait until you die to ultimately know? If what I've brought to the table is correct and you die and face God for your judgment, then it will be too late for you. God judges you based on how you lived your life.
Who wrote the Bible. Sure, people were used as the instruments to pen the Bible, but it all comes down to, do you believe God isn't a liar and that He has the power to protect His Word from humans messing it up.
When did I call God a big man? I recall asking you why you referred to Him like that.
Who told you that we were a part of God? There's some confusion here. Just b/c the Holy Spirit can reside in us doesn't mean we are a part of Him. Just b/c we only use a small portion of our brains doesn't mean we can connect the dots over to saying we are God. You jump around with your theories here. On the one hand, you're limiting God by saying He's been broken up into pieces and doesn't realize it. On the other hand you say He will eventually perform this miraculous process over time. Why couldn't He do it now? Is He hamstrung by something? If your answer is He's hamstrung by people, then He really wouldn't be God if mere people could trip Him up.
Again, you said, "I believe". Why should the scales be tipped in your favor regarding Atlantis, etc.? By saying, "I believe", you are using yourself as an authority on this subject.
David Suzuki. I just used his illustrations from his website.
Energy capable of more things than I can imagine. That's a pretty broad statement. But this just leaves the door open so that you can bring in the scientism theories that non-thinking matter exists.
Waste time. That's one of those, "Do you still beat your wife questions." If I say yes, then you'll take that as an open door for you to say, well, since there's a possibility Cherie's wrong, then I'll take my chances. But here's my answer: I've proven what I bring to the table is correct. You just don't like it.
Recall my statement about if you're wrong, die and then find yourself in front of God for judgment, then it will be too late.
I know what I'm going to see, and you know my answer.
Emotions. So translated that means, you'll hear arguments for both sides of an issue and then basically go do what you want anyway.
Big Macs. You're missing the point. I was talking about how feelings can be deceptive.
Love yourself. And here we go full circle with the relativism argument. You're trying to have it both ways again. Secularism/relativism ultimately leave no room for this kind of thing. You're making a judgment: people not loving themselves is sad. But in relativism, there are no judgments b/c nothing is bad, sad, etc.

yes i can do and acomplish anything i want to. and im definatly not going to let you rain on my parade.
in your mind you may think my belifs dont fit in the world but hoenstly i dont care what you think.

misscherie i have a question, what kind of god do you actualy belive in ? the one from the first testiment where it is a judgemental and cruel god or the god in the revised testiment where it is a loving and kind god? becuase you keep going back and forth on bouth of them so really im confused. and also before you told me god was love, how much do you actulay belive that becuase from your posts it really dosent seem that way.

and really if there is such thing as god and the whole heaven and hell senario then to be quite honest id be contempt if i were condemed to burn in hell for eternal beucase then if that were the case id be down there drinking beers with hitler and getting a nice tan. so really it dosent seem all that bad. other than that haha yeah i dont belive in fairy tales so the bible really doesnt cut it for me on what the afterlife consists of.

something doesnt have to have a brain and has to think in order to have a porpose. for example our cells cannot think yet they have a purpose. soo... if your saying that all non thinking matter doesnt have a porpose so then really we dont have a purpose since were all made of non-thinking cells, is that what your saying?


energy is capable of doing more than you even can comprehend. it is really a powerful force.

and again, quit it with the whole reletiavism thing because that is not what my belifs go under. so really your just saying all that for nothing :P

i find your perseption of life very sad. i do many things everyday that do not have any thing to do with money working or substance abuse or death. as do many other people. and in a way we are all connected but i do think some people are better than others. it is that way so things are balanced you know.for instance some of us are good at scince others are good at the simpler things. and i also think that you should work on how pestimistic you are it is just not right. not everything is so bad. and i doubt you would really like being in a bush.

yeah i do need to work on it , however ive always been that way to see the negativity in things and not just the postive because sometimes peoples intentions are negative and it can really help you through life.
and yes i do need to think more positive i do agree with that.

what i was trying to get at is how small colonys have no troubles accepting and loveing one another and helping out complete strangers, but when it comes to our lives in cities nobody does.

GPAC, why would human worth play any part in the way things are balanced? 2nd, are you saying that just b/c you consider some people to be good, that means they are better than others?

Playing devil's advocate some more, why would Saroin420's personal perception have anything to do with ultimate issues of right or wrong?

i dont mean it that how you took it misscherie. i just mean that people all have their strong points. and to me it has to be that way for balance.